Finally Pregnant After Multiple Miscarriages: "I Am A Nervous Wreck!"

Hello Dr. Ramirez,

I've written you in the past regarding my fertility challenges and your responses have been very encouraging. In my last, I discussed how I'd experienced an early loss in March after our first IVF attempt. You encouraged me to be strong and keep trying that my chances were good. You were right. I waited until my next cycle began and started a more simple IUI cycle again with just Follistim injections. My first miscarriage in April 2012 after IUI with Femara/GonalF was caused by trisomy 3. I found studies that said use of Femara in some women could increase the chances of aneuploidy. This time we tried without the Femara and I have become pregnant again.

I have gone through the complete RPL panel-DNA analysis, autoimmune, alloimmune, thyroid, hysteroscopy, etc. Everything has been normal. I believe the second miscarriage, because it began just 16 days after embryo transfer, was due to my body being weak (I was very sick during stimulation and had a lap/hysteroscopy/cystectomy 3 weeks before I started stimulants). I am 32, maybe borderline diminishing reserve (last AMH was .9), but otherwise nothing really bad with me.

So I am currently past 9 weeks. My betas doubled and were actually in the higher end of the ranges for weeks along. I did a viability ultrasound at 5 weeks and could see the heartbeat. Embryo measured exactly the right size. At 7 weeks we could hear the heartbeat at 174. RE saw me again at 8 weeks and said I looked good, released me to my OBGYN, said most women miscarry between 7-8 weeks. I've had no spotting or cramping. OBGYN is letting me do weekly scans until I'm through my first trimester. Heartbeat has stayed in the 170 range. Growth is continuing. Last ultrasound at 9 weeks showed the baby kicking its legs.

Here's the thing - I'm a nervous wreck. I'm terrified of something going wrong again. I am fighting to follow reason rather than fear but it is so hard. I have hardly any symptoms certainly none of the "noticeable" ones which means most of the time I don't feel like I'm pregnant. My last HCG was only at 102,900 when it was checked at 8.5 weeks, which I felt was low for where it had been but I know it slows down. My progesterone in the beginning was all the way up to 75 and is now holding at 30 (I had cysts leftover from after the IUI, made 3 follicles).
The statistics are all over the place. Some say less than 5% when heartbeat is detected but that can jump to 20% if you've had prior losses. I read it's even less once you enter the fetal stage past 8.5 weeks.

I feel stupid for asking but your answers are thoughtful. What do you think my chances are of carrying this baby to term? What would you say my change of miscarriage is? And why in the world do I hardly feel anything? I'm a little tired in the evenings and I pee in the middle of the night with crazy dreams, breasts are bigger but not sore, no nausea, etc.  But hardly anything to notice. Thank you so much for your time.  L. from Indiana

Answer:

Hello L. from the U.S. (Indiana),

CONGRATULATIONS :)  Like your RE, I release my patients at 8 1/2 weeks gestational age because the risk of miscarriage is minimal.  Statistics show that the risk of miscarriage is up to 50% prior to 8 weeks gestational age and then decreases to 5% up to 12 weeks gestation.  So you are now at 5% risk but the fact that all the signs have been good, is very encouraging and I would not worry about miscarrying.  At this point, the only risk of a miscarriage would be if there is a major genetic abnormality, and this would be a baby that you wouldn't want to go to term any way.  You should certainly consider genetic testing early to check on that.  There is now a blood screening test that can be done at an early stage.

In my experience, and as evidenced by the data, most patients will have a successful pregnancy and delivery at this point.  The fact that you "don't feel any different" with this pregnancy is irrelevant.  Every pregnancy is different and different people experience pregnancy differently.  Some have pregnancy symptoms and some have none.  You may be one of the lucky ones that doesn't have to suffer with the "morning sickness" or other such symptoms.  For now, pray that all continues to go well and thank God for the blessing.

Good Luck,

Edward J. Ramirez, M.D.
Executive Medical Director
The Fertility And Gynecology Center
Monterey Bay IVF

www.montereybayivf.com

Monterey, California, U.S.A.

 

Recurrent Pregnancy Loss: 5 Miscarriages Since 2009

Question:

Hello Dr. Ramirez,

My husband and I have been trying to conceive since 2007. I have PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome) and I have had 5 miscarriages, first one in April 2009 at 10 weeks and the others at 6 weeks. I've also lost a baby due to an incompetent cervix at 6 months. My most recent miscarriage was last month after an IFV cycle at 6 weeks. I was on baby aspirin, progesterone shot, metformin and Estrace. My fertility specialist was not able to say why I am having these recurrent miscarriages. My doctor has done blood work and all standard testing.

After numerous IUI cycles we went ahead with IVF which also led to a miscarriage. I still have four embryos left and don't want to pursue with another IVF cycle until I can get some answers as to what might have gone wrong or what I can do to change the outcome. Do you have any suggestions for me? Any feedback is greatly appreciated. N. from Canada

Answer:

Hello N. from Canada,

I am sorry for all your losses! The incompetent cervix is something that can easily be handled with your next  pregnancy by doing a cerclage (either a TVC or a TAC by the 16th week of gestation--a TAC can also be done pre-pregnancy). But you need to achieve and hold that next pregnancy. First, let me say that you should also read my website page where I have written extensively regarding evaluation of Recurrent Pregnancy Loss (RPL) and a possible protocol for treating this problem. Anyone who has miscarried three times or more needs to have this type of comprehensive evaluation. Some of the possible reasons you may be miscarrying include:

• Genetic/Chromosomal Causes (you don't state your age, but that could be factor)
• Polyps, Fibroids & Uterine Disorders
• Hematologic Disorders
• Hormonal (you have PCOS, so your cycle day 9 & 10 LH needs to be checked )
• Infectious, Genetic & Immune Factors

With a diagnosis of "Recurrent pregnancy loss", there is a protocol that is usually followed to evaluate for the possible causes. As stated above, this includes genetic testing (both you and your husband), immunological testing, infectious disease testing, anatomical testing, hematologic testing and hormonal testing. It is quite an extensive array of tests and can take up to two months.This is what should be done BEFORE you proceed with any more IVF cycles. The treatment will then depend on what is found. In some cases, for those with genetic causes, IVF with PGD (preimplantation genetic diagnosis) can be done to test the embryos for viability and chromosomal abherrations.

What is good is that you are able to ovulate, that your eggs fertilize and that you have been able to get pregnant. It is very difficult to go through as many miscarriages as you have and I hope that with proper evaluation you will be able to deliver a beautiful, healthy child in the near future.

Good Luck,

Dr. Edward J. Ramirez, M.D., FACOG
Executive Medical Director
The Fertility and Gynecology Center
Monterey Bay IVF Program
www.montereybayivf.com

Monterey, California, U.S.A.

40 Year Old TTC After Termination Of Trisomy Pregnancy

Hello, Doctor.


I am a 40 YO who has never had any trouble conceiving. I've been pregnant seven times. I had a child when I was 37; all went fine.

My husband and I are TTC (trying to conceive). GYN did an AMU (.86) a year ago. He said there was little hope. Nevertheless, I was pregnant in January, but the CVS @ 11 weeks revealed a double trisomy (13/21). We terminated the pregnancy.

Beginning with that particular pregnancy I have experienced pronounced pg symptoms within days of fertilization. They are symptoms I would expect to arise @ 6 weeks. I have had these symptoms each month when my husband and I try (with the exception of one month). My assumption is that I am experiencing hormone surges, but I have my period on time, and I have not had a positive urine test. I have tried a "control month" of abstiinence, and there were no symptoms. Also, no symptoms one other month (although we had tried).

I had a hormone panel on day 3 of my cycle, and another when I had begun to experience the nausea, tenderness, food aversion, fatigue, etc. GYN reported that the baseline was totally normal (FSH 3 and all other #s in range). The second test indicated that levels had changed, but still in normal range and not consistent with pregnancy. He has no explanation for these symptoms U/S's have been clear. No cysts or fibroids.

I did not experience these symptoms with my daughter or any other pregnancy.

I began taking lamictal in 09 150mg daily and .5 Klonopin daily. The addition of these meds and age are the only variables. My dx is Bipolar 1. I have found no research that supports either medication as interfering with implantation. The genetic counselor said the meds are a nonissue.

I have wondered if perhaps the procedure with the trisomy situation has harmed me somehow. My GYN said I never should have been able to implant an egg so defective.

So it seems, now, I will continue to experience these incredibly uncomfortable symptoms every time I fertilize an egg although my prospects for implantation seem dismal. I get all the bad stuff and hope for a good result that doesn't materialize.

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated.  Thanks, S. from California

Answer:

Hello S. from the U.S. (California),

Your symptoms are confusing and not easily explained. First, you cannot tell whether or not fertilization takes place. That occurs within the embryo and nothing within the body is changed at that point. You would not have symptoms. It is possible that the symptoms you are having are "hormonal shifts" or physiologically the result of the rise in progesterone in the luteal phase. Why would you be more sensitive to this now than before? I can't clearly explain that but you are also older now than you were before so maybe that had something to do with it. Normally, the pregnancy symptoms don't begin until weeks after implantation occurs, so it is unusual. But the progesterone is the culprit for PMS (premenstrual syndrome) which does have some of the symptoms that you describe. I don't think it was the D&E (dilation and evacuation).

Your doctor is right and wrong about the trisomy. It is well known that age is a significant factor and leads to increased numbers of embryos with chromosomal abnormalities. This leads to infertility and increased miscarriage rates. In most cases of complex or multiple abnormalities, the embryo never gets to the point of implantation. But if the defect is not significant enough, as in trisomies, implantation can occur but then most will end in miscarriage. Few will continue to the point where genetic testing finds the abnormality but they do occur.

As you continue to attempt pregnancy you have to remember these facts. Due to your age, it will be more difficult for you to get pregnant, you have an increased risk of miscarriages and an increased risk of abnormal embryos. Aside from your one successful pregnancy, you note that you have had six that miscarried which is troublesome. You have what we call "secondary infertility". Since there is no technology that can change the quality of your eggs, the only way to increase the chances of a successful pregnancy in older patients (over 35 years old), is to increase the number of eggs that have the opportunity to implant. This is done by increasing the number of eggs that ovulate (superovulation) or through IVF (even higher numbers of eggs). In addition, with IVF, genetic testing can be done on the eggs to eliminate the ones that are genetically abnormal so that only normal embryos are transferred. This is just food for thought.

I hope I was able to ease your concerns.

Good Luck,

Dr. Edward J. Ramirez, M.D., FACOG
Executive Medical Director
The Fertility and Gynecology Center
Monterey Bay IVF Program
www.montereybayivf.com

Genetic Defect In Husband's Sperm Leading To IVF Failure: Screening With CGH Recommended

(If the blog radio program turns on, go to the Oct. 1st blog post and pause it...I will be keeping the show up for the month of October.)

Question:

Dear Dr. Ramirez,

My husband and I have been infertile for two years. The second year, we began IVF. We have completed 3 IVF rounds. The first was not successful. The second resulted in a chemical pregnancy / early miscarriage at 6 weeks. The third resulted in an ectopic pregnancy. My husband and I are both in good health, with no known infertility factors (endometriosis, etc.). We do not have antisperm antibodies. All our bloodwork was good. On our second IVF round, 1/2 of the eggs were fertilized by standard IVF and none of them merged. 1/2 of the eggs were fertilized by ICSI and did very well. On our third IVF round, all the eggs were fertilized with ICSI and did very well. We have 9 frozen embryos waiting.

After this ectopic pregnancy, we had genetic testing done. Mine were normal. My husband's were abnormal. The interpretation was:

"A male karyotype with a small supernumeray bisatellited marker chromosome was noted in all metaphases analyzed. The majority of bisattellited markers are derived from an inversion duplication of the pericentromeric area of chromosome 15. Apparently this market carries minimal with no phenotypic significance to the patient; however it may lead to decreased fertility, repeated pregnancy loss, or chromosomally abnormal offsrping. Parental follow up chormosome studies are recommended to determine if the marker is familiar or de novo in origin, and to further evaluete its clinical significance. De novo markers are associated with an increased risk for phenotypic abnormalities. Genetic counseling is recommended."

We are going to receive genetic counseling in the future, but what is your opinion about this chromosome 15 abnormality and its effect on conception and offspring? Thanks! A. from the U.S.

Answer:

Hello A. from the U.S.,

Unfortunately I am not a geneticist and will usually go by what the geneticists advise me in terms of the consequences of chromosomal abnormalities.

However, in general, this is what it means to me. Your husband is carrying a genetic abnormality that is "recessive" in nature, meaning that it does not necessarily present itself as an abnormality. Because his sperm can contain this trait, it is possible that this can result in abnormal embryos, which will lead to early embryo death (and lack of implantation) or an early miscarriage. The ectopic pregnancy you had was for a different reason and does not need to be considered in this discussion.

What I would recommend is that the embryos be tested by the relatively new CGH (Array Comparative Genomic Hybridisation) process or PGS (Preimplantation Genetic Screening) prior to transfer. Last year, in England, a 41 yr. old woman who had failed IVF 13 times had her embryos tested with CGH and in September delivered a healthy baby (see article here). If your embryos are D#3 embryos, they should be thawed, and biopsied for genetic testing done by CGH. They would then be cultured to blastocyst and transferred at that time. If they are already blastocysts, then they would need to be thawed, biopsied then frozen again for a later transfer. In any future IVF cycles, the embryos should be similarly tested to look for the normals so that the abnormal embryos are not transferred leading to a negative pregnancy, miscarriage and further disappointment.

Not knowing how the genetic transference of this abnormality is done i.e. does it occur every time with every embryo, or is there a chance that some embryos will not have the disorder? it is hard for me to give any more specific recommendations. Once you have your genetic counseling, they will be able to answer these questions for you, which will help to determine a more specific strategy.

Good Luck,

Edward J. Ramirez, M.D., FACOG

Executive Medical Director

The Fertility and Gynecology Center

Monterey Bay IVF Program

http://www.montereybayivf.com/

Monterey, California, U.S.

Comment: Thank you. You are an angel for helping with this guidance.

32 Year Old Canadian With Multiple Miscarriages: Do Not Despair! You Can Conceive!

Question:

Dear Dr.Ramirez,

I am a 32 years old and my husband is 34. We have been trying for a baby since July 2008. In early 2009 we conceived and were over the moon. An early dating u/s at 6 weeks showed a heartbeat but sadly I started bleeding 2 days later and naturally lost the pregnancy.

Two months later we conceived again and my doctor suggested progesterone supplements. At the 7 1/2 week u/s the baby had an extremely slow heart rate and passed one week later. I had another natural m/c.

After the second miscarriage we decided to go to a Fertility Clinic and do a full work up. Everything came back perfect. Good FSH (5.9 & 6.8), AFC count of 20, normal karyotypes, no autoimmune or blood clotting issues. All other hormones were great as well including husbands DNA sperm test.

We decided to try agian with the aid of a low dose fertility drug (puregon) and timed intercourse. I got pregnant that first cycle this January. All of early ultrasounds were perfect but sadly we found out the baby had a large cystic hygoma and T21 at 12 weeks. I just had my D&E and am totally devastated.

Could we really have such bad luck? Or is there something else going on like poor egg quality at my age? What would you recommend we try for next time?

Your response is much appreciated. D. from Canada

Answer:

Hello D. from Canada,

Despite the fact that you had three losses, I am not sure that you can bunch them together. For one thing, the last loss was due to a congenital anomaly. It was not technically a miscarriage. I presume that you doctor checked chromosomes in both you and your husband to make sure that you are not passing something along. If that is the case, and it was normal, then the congenital anomaly was just chance, as was the miscarriages.

The most common reason for miscarriage is spontaneous genetic defects. That means that when the egg was dividing, there was chromosomal breakage and so the embryo developed abnormally. In most cases, the body detects the abnormal embryo/fetus and stops the pregnancy leading to a miscarriage. It is known that most patients with multiple miscarriages will eventually be successful, so one piece of advice is to not give up. Certainly, getting pregnant is not an issue for you. Also, because you are still young, it is unlikely that you have "bad" eggs or poor egg quality. That is usually an age related phenomenon.

I know that it is emotionally draining and an absolute heartbreak to go through all these losses. But you will eventually be successful if you keep trying, so, not to belittle the losses, but it might help if you think of these as practice runs for the real thing. Also, in addition, to the progesterone supplements with each cycle, you might want to add low dose aspirin and folic acid to the regimen. Hopefully, the next pregnancy will be the good one.

Good Luck and God Bless,

Edward J. Ramirez, M.D., FACOG

Executive Medical Director

The Fertility and Gynecology Center

Monterey Bay IVF Program

http://www.montereybayivf.com/

Monterey, California, U.S.A.

Comment: Dear Dr.Ramirez, Thank-you so much for your prompt and informative response. My husband and I will certainly try again in the future after we take some time to heal emotionally. Your answer has given me much hope ! Also, yes we had our karyotypes checked and we do not have any genetic/inheritable issues. All of those tests were normal. I pray for a healthy baby soon.

42 Yr. Old U.K. Patient With Poor Egg Quality, Tubal Damage, Given Troubling News: How To Proceed?

Question:

I am asking this question from the UK.

I am 42 years old, and have recently had a failed IVF cycle. It was my first IVF cycle and I had a low response. I had a total of 3 eggs harvested.

There were 2 from mature follicles and 1 from a small follicle. I know this is a poor response because I was on the maximum amount of drugs. I was on Buserelin 1mg/ml - 0.5ml per day, puregon 300 units and menopur 300 units per day. Not only did I have a poor response but the egg quality was also very poor. The egg from the small follicle burst before the embryologist could perform ICSI on it. The other 2 eggs did not change or develop in anyway when ICSI was performed on them. And ICSI was done because my husband's sperm is low in number and has problems with motility and morphology.

I recently had a follow up session with the fertility specialist and he advised me to not do any more IVFs and to consider egg donation if I want to proceed. And he even went on to say that even if by some miracle I did get pregnant my egg quality is so poor that the child would most probably have serious birth defects. I was so devastated.

My questions are I only had one IVF and the FSH on day 3 was 9.3, so can my doctor tell from one IVF that I have a low egg reserve and all my eggs are of poor quality. I forgot to say that both my tubes are blocked so an IUI wouldn't be useful.

Could it be that on another cycle an IVF might give better results? I have always had regular periods. Could my ovaries just have responded badly the first time and might they respond better to a second IVF? And most importantly, even if by some miracle I get pregnant, does my poor egg quality in this IVF cycle mean that a child would most probably have serious birth defects?

I want to do another IVF cycle. I want to see if a different drug protocol might cause a better result. Please tell me if you think that I should have any hope for a better result or if I must face the brutal truth that there is no hope and I must only consider egg donation.Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions.

ANSWER:

Hello P. from the U.K.,

In answer to your questions:

1. Low ovarian reserve (the stimulation response) and low egg quality are two different factors. You had both in this cycle. The elevated FSH of 9.3 is an indication that the ovaries probably will not stimulate very well with maximum stimulation as you did. It does not indicate poor egg quality,however. Your age is more of a factor indicating poor egg quality. As you know, pregnancy rates decrease significantly with increasing age, especially after 35. This is mainly due to poor egg quality. There is no way to correct poor egg quality other than trying to recruit and extract multiple eggs in the hope that a good egg will be present in that group. I don't think that all your eggs are poor quality but certainly the majority (90% or more) are.

2. There have been several studies on poor responders showing that each cycle is unique and yields a different result. So, there is still a chance, that even with one embryo, you could be successful in a subsequent cycle. However, to keep from giving you false hope, the chances would be low so you would need to be prepared for failure and to have to try several attempts. There was recently an article in the New York Times here in the U.S. about a 49 year old woman who conceived and delivered by IVF using her own eggs. I believe she is the oldest in the world to have done so (get pregnant with her own eggs by IVF). However, they were clear to point out that it took her two years of doing IVF to attain that success.

3. I disagree with your doctor's statement that if you got pregnant you would almost certainly have an defective child. Because of your age there is a strong risk for miscarriage or a genetic abnormality such as Down's syndrome. However, abnormal embryos rarely implant or lead to a successful pregnancy. The only reason Down's syndrome gets by is because it is a mild genetic defect (only one chromosome is abnormal). If you get pregnant, and it successfully progresses beyond 8 weeks gestational age, your chances are good of having a normal child. We do recommend genetic testing, however, for those few that are abnormal. Poor egg quality usually leads to an embryo with multiple abnormalities, poor embryonic development and either no pregnancy or an early miscarriage.

4. I don't see any reason why you can't keep trying with your own eggs as I mentioned above. I see miracles happen all the time. However, you have to be prepared for a bad result, and if you can handle that, go ahead and keep trying as long as your ovaries still respond. You can switch to donor eggs at any time and at almost any age (although we tend to limit it to below 50) so that option will always be there. That being said however, I would probably have counseled the same as your doctor because we want you to be successful in the shortest time, least amount of attempts, least amount of emotional cost, and least amount of financial cost.

Follow-Up Question:

Dr. Ramirez,

Hello, it's P. again.

My next question concerns trying to fix my blocked tubes.

I wonder if I should consider a procedure to have one or both of my tubes unblocked. I have read that sometimes a tube can be so scarred that even having a procedure to unblock it doesn't work.

If one of my tubes was unblocked and remained so, then I could become pregnant naturally, couldn't I? I know I would still be battling with a poor egg reserve and a lot of eggs that are poor quality because of my age. Do blocked tubes mostly remained blocked even after a tubal opening operation? I am also very overweight, will this make a difference to how easily a surgeon could perform such an operation?

Dr. Ramirez, do you think this could be an option for me? Thank you for answering my questions. It is truly wonderful that you give up your time to help women like myself. God Bless you for your kindness.

Follow-Up Answer:

Hello Again,

Despite what anyone may tell you, tubal damage is NOT repairable or reversible except for two exceptions:

1. The fimbriated end of the tube is blocked by scar tissue that was causes externally, such as by previous surgery or a ruptured appendix.

2. The opening to the tube at the uterus is blocked by mucous, in which case, an HSG can sometimes unblock them and they would function normally.

Anything else that caused tubal damage cannot be fixed, and surgery does not exist for this. In addition, because of your age and ovarian reserve, even if that technology did exist (such as tubal transplantation), your "natural" chances of pregnancy would only be 1% per year of trying. It definitely would not be worth the surgical cost or risks. IVF has a better chance of 25-27% per attempt.

Good luck, P. and don't lose heart!

Sincerely,

Edward J. Ramirez, M.D., FACOG
Executive Medical Director
The Fertility and Gynecology Center
Monterey Bay IVF Program
http://www.montereybayivf.com/
Monterey, California, U.S.A.

Comment:
Dr. Ramirez answered my questions clearly, completely and kindly. He obviously has a genuine desire to help women that find themselves in the terrible position of needing fertility help.

Young PCO Austrian Had 5 IVF Cycles Over 3 Years And Is Ready To Give Up - Short Protocol, CGH Advised & Keep Trying!

Dear Dr. Ramirez,

Thanks for taking the time to do this, I have read several of your previous answers on the website and I am looking forward to hear your thoughts on our case. I am writing from Austria. Both my husband and I are 30, we have been doing IVF/ICSI for the past 3 years (5 cycles) with no success. My husband has the CF gene and no vas deferens (0 count). Everything is fine with me (blood work, hormones, etc). I had a laparoscopy/hysteroscopy in 2006 (prior to the treatments) where an endometrial cyst was removed from one ovary, as well as one polyp from the uterus and some adhesions from the tubes. I have been getting continuously checked since then and my uterus, ovaries are clear from anything. My husband has had 3 TESE procedures, and good looking sperm was found each time and lots of it has been frozen.

We had 2 treatments in 2007, 1 in 2008, and 2 in 2009. In the first cycle (with fresh sperm) I had 14 eggs, 3 fertilized, and 2 grade A embryos were transferred. In my second and 3rd cycle I had 20 eggs (different protocols used in each of the treatments) and none fertilized. I hyperstimulated severely in cycle # 2 and ended up in the hospital. I was told we had an egg issue and to try with donor eggs. We took a year off to think about it and switched clinics. In 2009, cycle # 4, we had 15 eggs (frozen sperm), 3 fertilized and 2 grade A embryos were transferred on day 3. In cycle #5, we had 15 eggs again (frozen sperm), 7 fertilized, and we had 2 morulas transferred. We have a lot of trust in our doctor and clinic used for the past 2 treatments, and have a great relationship. The clinic is a stat of the art building with all new technology. This doctor does not think I have egg quality issues since I had good embryos (although very few of them) in the last two cycles, and thinks we should keep trying. However, we know it is not normal that within our age group we have not succeeded yet. It is hard to not think that there is something wrong with us. I stimulate very well in terms of numbers, and the protocol has been decreased (amount of drugs) with each treatment (always yielding a high number of eggs). We have tried acupuncture, yoga, bed rest, no bed rest, and all kinds of things. We do have a possibility to try one treatment in the US (due to the expenses), but are not sure of what we should do.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. What do you think of my egg quality issue? Would a US clinic suggest donor eggs? I would really like to try with mine...Best regards from Austria.

ANSWER:

Hello S. from Austria,

Based on the history you have given me, it sounds like you may be a PCO-type ovarian stimulator. That is why you have so many eggs, and had hyperstimulation syndrome. The good part of that is that you yield lots of eggs. There have been some studies that show a decrease pregnancy rate in PCO patients, however, and it is thought that it is because they stimulate too much. This leads to unequal maturation of the eggs within. Certainly, you seem to have had good quality (albeit external quality) embryos in the latter two cycles. At your age, I would have expected a pregnancy, easily. One concern is whether the sperm is contributing to poor embryos (again internal quality/genetically), because of your husband's CF gene. The embryo could still look good but be genetically abnormal. The only way to know this is to do preimplantation genetic screening, preferably by polar body biopsy and CGH, to verify that only normal embryos are transferred. CGH, or "comparitive genomic hybridization" is a genetic test that analyzes the chromosomal integrity of an egg or embryo. In IVF, it is ideally done in women under the age of 39 who have more than 6 healthy embryos after fertilization. They can be her own or donor eggs.

I would not recommend that you give up yet. If you give up, you certainly will fail. Since your ovary stimulates so well, and you are young, I think your chances of pregnancy are still high. The alternative to the above genetic testing on the embryos, would be to go to donor sperm, rather that donor eggs, in order to eliminate that paternal genetic factor. I know that you husband would probably prefer a genetic child, however, so in that case, you just have to keep trying.

If you came to me or any other clinic in the U.S., I don't think we would be ready to give up with your eggs. I think we would continue to encourage you to keep trying with your own eggs. I recently had a patient, similar to you that seemed to have poor embryo quality in another clinic. They did three IVF cycles there and then were recommended to use donor eggs. Fortunately, her husband got transferred to my locale and they came to me for consultation. I encouraged them to try at least one more time with her own eggs, again since her ovaries stimulated well. They decided to go with my recommendation and in their first attempt, became pregnant.

Follow-Up Question:

Thank you Dr. Ramirez for your answer.

In the meantime, I just had a hysteroscopy 3 days ago and a polyp removed from the uterine wall, this polyp was not showing up on ultrasounds. Could you please elaborate on why you think I have PCO? I do ovulate every month, no diabetes issues, no acne, no absence of menstruation, none of the signs I have read are present in me, but since it is the first time I hear that, please explain me how I could have it and how does it affect stimulation? How is it better to deal with it?

I forgot to mention that in the last two treatments (with 2 embryos/morulas transferred each time) we did polar biopsy of the eggs and only the 2 perfect/healthy ones were transferred each time, still no success. My doctor recommends that we continue to do this polar biopsy and we will. What kind of stimulation would you recommend for me? What could have caused this polyp I just had removed? Could it be the same stimulation drugs (estrogen), which is given to me as part of the treatments that made my uterine tissue grown into a polyp? (it was a long, flat polyp, not the regular ones that can be seen by ultrasound).

With regards to the couple you mention in the last paragraph, what did you do different from their 3 previous treatments that could have led to success? Is it just a matter of numbers/attempts, that we need to keep trying? The more one fails, the harder it is to believe it could happen....and I know mental power can do lots for either direction.

We might try one more treatment here (much more affordable) and then have a final treatment in the States. We are definitely not ready to give up! Thanks again!

Follow-Up Answer:

Hello Again,

There are many variations of PCO. Not all fit the classic descriptions. In your case, what makes me think that you have a PCO tendency is the fact that you overstimulated and developed hyperstimulation syndrome. I have had many patients that have surprised me in the same way. They are thin, have regular menstrual cycles, don't have any other PCO-type tendencies, yet they stimulate like a PCO patient. That is, their ovaries are very sensitive to the fertility medications. Since you don't have any of the other PCO findings, the only thing to keep in mind is that your ovaries are very sensitive to stimulation, so that the next time, a low dose protocol will be used and you don't develop hyperstimulation syndrome.

In terms of stimulation protocols, with my PCO patients I use a "step-up" protocol. Patients start at a low dose of Follistim 150IU for three days then the estradiol level is checked for response. If there is not a high response then I step up the dosage to Follistim 150IU + Menopur 75. We continue the same pattern of checking and adjusting the dosage as needed. I don't use Lupron agonist suppression (long protocol), but instead use the Antagonist Ganerelix. When the follicles are appropriate sized, I trigger with Lupron 0.5 mg instead of Ovidrel. This combination and protocol has been shown to be effective in preventing hyperstimulation syndrome.

Polyps are normal. It is very common and is due to an overgrowth of endometrial tissue. The finding is probably not significant in terms of pregnancy chances, but we prefer to remove them anyway so that they can't potentially interfere.

In terms of my couple, I used a completely different protocol than what she used previously, and some additional medications. Different clinics have different success rates because of differences in their protocols and techniques. "Failing" is when you stop trying. As long as you continue to try, you have a chance of success and that is what you have to focus on. Focus on the goal, not the pathway.

Good Luck,

Edward J. Ramirez, M.D., FACOG

Executive Medical Director

The Fertility and Gynecology Center

Monterey Bay IVF Program

http://www.montereybayivf.com/

Monterey, California, U.S.A.

***See continuing follow up to this question on May 16th, 2010...