38 Year Old Has Five Failed Fresh IVF Cycles But Has Frozen Embies: Should She Try FET?

Question:

Hello - I have been reading you blogs for some time now and am so thankful that you take the time you do with such thoughtful answers.

I am 38 and husband is 41. My history is as follows: 2009 wasted time on clomid prescribed by my obstetrician, 2010 saw RE (reproductive endocrinologist) and began the real journey. Major issue is male factor morphology but I suspect with my age quality may be issue too.

In 2010 we had 2 Fresh IVF (in vitro fertilization) cycles, first was a failure 3 eggs collected, thankfully 3 fertilized and implanted 2 (1 frozen) but no pregnancy, cycle 2 doubled my stim meds to 300 gonal f and 150 repronex, collected 13 eggs but transferred 2 "decent" but beta was very low around 70 the pregnancy continued to around 11 weeks saw heartbeat but clearly there was issues as the size kept loosing ground until miscarriage and D&E. Cycle 3 same meds, 13 eggs, transferred 2 on day 5 and then arrived my beautiful baby girl delivered 12/29/2011.  Fast forward to 2013 where I have done two more fresh cycles same protocol, birth control, 10 lupron, to 5 lupron when stimming, retrievals after 9-10 days of stims. Cycle 4 resulted in collecting 20 eggs, 2 "decent" transferred on day 5 (blastocyst and morula) very low beta resulted in loss about a week later.  Cycle 5 same protocol except menopur instead of repronex, collected 18 eggs, 14 fertilized and transferred 2 blastocysts on day 5. This was a negative. BTW all cycles are ICSI and included medrol, baby aspirin, antibiotics, vivelle patches and  progesterone in oil injections. 

My question is what are your thoughts on FET (frozen embryo transfer).  I have 4 frozen embryos 1 from cycle 1, 1 from cycle 4 and 2 from cycle 5. RE and hubby think I should take a break and try for FET. I and concerned as I don't want to "waste" a cycle insurance will cover on the lower cost option but the meds did really affect me this time and see their point about giving my body a rest. I am at a very reputable clinic in Boston and doc said 4 frozen is a lot due to their strict freezing criteria so am optimistic although obviously embyro age has no advantage. Would FET also be something you would recommend at this point? Fresh cycles are a big logistical challenge as my husband travels 70% of the time.

Also if I go back to fresh cycle is there anything significantly different you would do (btw I am also doing acupuncture). Thank -you in advance for your time. I also want to say I am very grateful for my daughter and don't want to seem selfish but I would really like her to grow up with a sibling. 

J. from Boston

Answer:

Hello J. from the U.S. (Boston),

It sounds like you are in good hands.  Your clinic has accomplished several pregnancies, which is an IVF success.  Keep in mind that IVF can only give you the "opportunity" to become pregnant.  It can't make you pregnant because the last three steps (embryo hatching from its shell, attachment to the endometrial lining, and lining growing around the embryo are natural processes that are in God's hands.  That fact that you got a pregnancy (positive bHCG) shows that those steps occurred.  Continuation of the pregnancy is then based on pregnancy factors and not IVF factors.  Because of your age, your chances of a miscarriage are high due to abnormal embryos.  You've shown that you can get pregnant, and your ovaries stimulate very well.  Now it is just a matter of finding the perfect egg/embryo which will then lead to a successful pregnancy.  I wish all my 38 year olds responded as you do.  So hang in there!

I think I would advise proceeding with the FET cycle before another fresh cycle.  It is a much easier cycle on your body, and some newer studies are showing better pregnancy rates than fresh, probably because of the lack of overstimulation of the endometrial lining.  I don't completely agree that FET is "better" but it certainly gives a good chance.  If they fail, you can certainly try fresh cycles again.  I would advise two FET cycles consecutively.  In fact, I always advise my patients to do an FET cycle, if they have frozens, before trying a fresh cycle again.  You never know. . . the frozen might work.
In terms of additional protocol changes, you are doing everything that I have my patients do in terms of supplemental medications, but I also add low dose heparin (2000 U per day).  Not all RE's agree with this protocol, but it is an accepted protocol for recurrent pregnancy loss so you might want to ask your RE.

Thanks for following my Blog.

Good Luck,

Edward J. Ramirez, M.D.
Executive Medical Director
The Fertility And Gynecology Center
Monterey Bay IVF

www.montereybayivf.com

Monterey, California, U.S.A.

Comment: Thank you much for the quick and thoughtful answer. I have several time contemplated seeking a more aggressive clinic despite my comfort level. Your response puts many of my worries at ease. You are truly a huge help to those of us in a constant state of limbo. Thanks again.

 

39 Year Old With Recurrent Chemical Pregnancies

Question:

Hello there! I’m writing to you from Florida. I have recently suffered two miscarriages. One in Oct of 2012 and one in March of this year. Both occurred at about two weeks so very early. I guess the term is chemical pregnancy when it is that early. I don't know how I know I am pregnant so early but I just know. My body is sensitive! I am 39 years old so my Dr. watches me closely and had me do the clomid challenge test to check the fsh which I think tests egg quality. Mine was 7.6. I also had a vaginal ultrasound and everything looks perfect. No fibroids or cysts. Then in March 2013 I got pregnant again and I was immediately sent for an hcg blood test. My hcg levels kept going up and down 241 to 119 over the course of three weeks and it would not leave my system completely so I ended up having to have another ultrasound that found nothing as they were worried about an ectopic pregnancy but did not find a sac or anything. I ended up taking a methotrexate shot.

Finally my levels went back to zero and 6 weeks later I did a complete recurrent miscarriage blood panel test and they found that I tested positive for two copies of the mthfr CT677 gene. I also was out of range for the PAI-1 test which was 51. Everything else was normal. My Dr. put me on foltx and a daily aspirin plus I take my prenatal vitamins and she told me that as soon as I find out I am pregnant again I need to start administering lovenox injections and progesterone suppositories. Right before delivery it would change to heparin. I enjoy reading your blog and appreciate all of your knowledgable answers. I would like to know what your thoughts are about the regimen she has planned for me and if there is anything else I should be doing. I am a bit nervous to try again. We really want to have a baby!  

Thank you, M. from Florida

Answer:

Hello M. from the U.S. (Florida),

The CCCT is to check for ovarian reserve (ability of the ovary to respond to stimulation) and not egg quality.  Thought you should know that.

It sounds like your Ob/Gyn doctor is well versed in the evaluation and treatment of recurrent pregnancy loss, which makes her a little better than the average Ob/Gyn doc.  One thing to keep in mind, however, is that you have the "age factor" which means that your eggs are old and debilitated and therefore have a propensity to forming abnormal embryos.  In most cases these embryos will not continue and lead to a miscarriage (especially before 8 weeks gestational age).  The age factor is the main factor that you are trying to overcome.  There is no treatment that can make eggs better.  The good news is that your ovaries are still functioning well, and you know that you can get pregnant.  Now it is just a matter of getting a perfect egg.

The increased folic acid, low dose aspirin, low dose heparin or lovenox and progesterone supplementation are all reasonable and acceptable treatments for recurrent pregnancy loss. What I would recommend is that the heparin/lovenox start immediately with the start of your period, NOT once you become pregnant.  It should already be in your system when implantation occurs to help with increased blood flow at the implantation site, and decrease the immune response to the embryo.  Starting after pregnancy would defeat the purpose.

Based on your age, I would agree with the above regimen, add CoQ10 600 mg per day (found to help with egg quality in mice.  No human studies yet but it can't hurt) and strongly recommend that you consider IVF rather than continuing to try naturally.  I know that you are able to get pregnant naturally, and it may eventually happen, but the only way to increase your chances of success (overcome the age factor) is to increase the number of eggs and embryos you have to choose from.  With IVF, you have a better chance of finding the perfect egg.  I explain it to my patients with the following analogy: imagine that you have a bucket of blue balls and a few red balls. There are mostly blue balls and only 4-5 red balls.  The red balls represent your good quality eggs and the blue balls the poor quality eggs.  These balls are all mixed up together and you lift the bucket above your head so that you can't see inside.  Now you have several options.  You can take one ball out at a time (like you would in a naturally ovulatory cycle) whereby you will eventually get a red ball, but you can see that it will take a long while; or you can take out a handful of balls out at a time (like using superovulation with fertility drugs); or you can dump out a bunch of balls at a time (like doing IVF).  You can see that the latter method is the fastest for getting to a red ball.  That is why IVF (in vitro fertilization) is the recommended treatment.  With a red ball (good quality egg) not only will you get pregnant, but you will have a successful pregnancy because a normal embryo will develop.

Sorry for the extremely long explanation, but I hope my answer has been clear.

Good Luck,

Edward J. Ramirez, M.D.
Executive Medical Director
The Fertility And Gynecology Center
Monterey Bay IVFwww.montereybayivf.com

Monterey, California, U.S.A.